How is it possible that as a society we have watched the behavior of kids go from fairly normal to "Lord of the Flies" and still use words like "punishment enough." Especially when "punishment enough" usually refers to no punishment at all.
Some thoughts about Karen Klein, the bus driver in New York State who was mercilessly taunted by 7th grade boys.
1) I am so thrilled that there are so many people out there who gave her quite a consolation in the form of retirement and vacation. It renews my faith in the human spirit and I truly hope she has a wonderful time with both.
2) I think this society of parents better start taking the moral destruction of their kids seriously.
3) Living in a society of talk first and maybe punishment later, but probably not, has got to change or we need to get used to this kind of thing.
4) Will someone please tell me why all the little kid cartoons are geared towards manners, good behavior, living by the Golden rule, treating others as we would like to be treated and caring about others, but somehow when you make the jump to the next age level of cartoons, none of that is there. In fact the opposite is. Rather, you see insults made funny, the most deplorable behavior, complete lack of conscience and nothing in the way of teaching anything decent? Anyone? Who the "bleep" is making these anyway.
5) Does anyone think that a child develops this lack of humanity and the ability to watch someone else suffer without first having either seen others in their lives do that and get away with it or get power for it or have had it done to them?
Mean behavior begets mean behavior. Period! Mean behavior with power, powerfully begets mean behavior. I don’t want to get into a long description of the science behind it. What I do want to say is that with 26 years of watching the real life version of mean behavior in kids that continues or stops based on the responses to it, I think we talk too much and I think we make too many excuses for kid’s behavior and allow it to grow into something malignant.
To parents: if you see your child doing mean behaviors to others when little, don’t walk away saying it’s a stage to be grown out of. It grows all right, into bigger and better mean behavior. Talking about it is fine but not by itself. If the child is getting power from it in some way or sees an adult in his or her world getting power for it, the behavior will continue to feel profitable no matter if you talk or not. If you take power over your child by being mean to the child or others in your home or life, realize that you are leaving a legacy behind and it may not be what you want it to be.
While I am not a proponent of censorship, I think parents need to not only be involved in what their kids are watching and are involved in, as the messages from those things can make a huge difference in behavior, but also set good examples.
I remember years ago, seeing "Uncle Buck" in the theater when it first came out. Two boys sat in front of us. They were about 11 years old. During the scene where Uncle Buck punches a drunk clown in the face and he pops up like a clown doll, one boy in front of us turned to the other and punched the other one in the face and laughed. It was immediate. My boyfriend and I looked at each other and shook our heads. Ok, so that might not be such a big deal to some, but put into context the fact that this was at a time when kids didn’t have access to the most basal and low of the human condition online. A whole new world of resources is open to them and if parents are not careful, that can become a seriously dangerous thing.
I also remember a family who I worked with long ago and I found it amazing that the mom wanted to get done right on time so her 9 year old could go home to watch South Park. This was a delightful family and it didn't make sense to me that this mom would allow that, so I aksed the mom, "have you ever SEEN South Park?" She admitted she had not but said "that it was a cartoon so how bad could it be?" I asked her to go home and watch it by herself. The next week she came back and thanked me. She was amazed. She had no idea and assumed that because it was a cartoon, it was ok for kids. There are many more like that now, years later.
I realize I will hear from the crowd who thinks that talking is the "be all end all" and that punishment is an outdated concept, but Psyche 101 will tell you that if something is followed by a positive, it will be done again. If something is followed by a neutral stimulus, it won’t be avoided. If something is followed by a negative but appropriate, it will be far less attractive to do again. Simple. Keep in mind, however, consequences should teach at the same time.
So, here is my short answer to the question posed by a proud parent of one of the bus bullies: "Isn’t his being involved in this publicity, punishment enough?" I can honestly say that after watching Karen Klein crying while these ridiculously cruel children kept bullying her, watching her suffer, my answer is not in a million years!
Dr. Sherri is a Child and Family Psychologist in Grayslake, IL. at http://www.happyfamilysite.com
There are homeschool families that are talking about this story and saying, "... and people wonder why we homeschool..."
The hero's in every situation, are the ones that see what is going on and blow the whistle. That don't allow the behavior to continue and DO something about it. It is too easy to look away now a days. So, even though I feel for this lady and what she had to go through, hooray for the person that filmed this and turned it in!!!
I was HOPING that someone did the right thing. This just made this already horrible story, worse for me, at least. We need to all take this story and teach our kids to do the HARD things and go against their peers and ALWAYS do the right thing. You know, those pillars that they like to teach the kids? It makes me wonder, who their heroes are?
I don't know if any punishment is enough to break the cycle. Gang members go around shooting each other knowing, and expecting, to spend part of the lives in prison--or dead. Even that is not sufficient deterrent. Call me pessimistic.
government (at best it works for the too big to fails, and the worst is it's a perpetual war machine). I feel sorry for kids. How can they possibly grow up straight when their parents don't even have a clue as to why and how we've come to this corrupted state of being. If we adults can wrestle back the power to make our world right again, through demanding more of ourselves as part of our local communities, rather than expecting some out of control and out of touch government to help us, maybe we can set things right as our children watch us work together rather than hand our power over, only to be fleeced and ignored as our children's' futures are sold down the river of debt and the road to war.
There's some instances where it's good to talk to kids about things, but in this instance, if I was the parent - that kid would have had a huge punishment to contend with, a very public apology, and then we'd have the talk... I think the biggest issue is that there's a total lack of consequences and that emboldens the little criminals (oops, I mean bullies). Kids need to learn that there's consequences for their actions, what those consequences are, what they mean to them, and why certain actions are bad. We can talk all day long BEFORE the actions - to help prevent them from occurring in the first place, but ultimately, if and when they do occur, we have to "put up or shut up", met out the consequences, and make it happen very publicly so the others who are considering the actions will hopefully reconsider. In my book, that's not happening nowdays, so here we are... 7th grade thugs attacking and abusing elderly bus monitors...
That said, I think the right thing to do would be for those fathers to get on CNN with their sons, and have the sons make a very public and humble apology to the Bus monitor and beg forgiveness. Then the father's should get up there and pull a mea culpa for letting things get to this point. Finally, the sons should be the poster boys for an anti-bullying campaign that lasts at least a year. Any proceeds from appearances, etc. to go toward their documentable expenses for travel, and the rest to the campaign itself. And as an additional punishment, they should be made to handle all the outside work at this woman's home for the next 2 years. Snow, leaves, grass, landscaping, etc. All of it. And yep, I'd suspend them for 5 days in the school. The punishment? They'd get to clean every single bathroom, every single day. Scrub every toilet. Clean every floor drain - and especially the ones in the locker room showers. And if they missed any deadlines for school work as a result of the suspension? Tough. But that's just me :-)
Does anyone really believe that most of the people who are jailed in this country for antisocial actions have been under punished by their parents, the school or the judicial system prior to their incarceration. "Morality play" shows like Leave it to Beaver or The Andy Griffith show focused on adult characters helping kids to tame their impulses, learn empathy and, perhaps most importantly earn their trust in the process. It is true that these shows did not have single parents, teen parents, same sex parents, poverty -- but it is also true that while the country is a much different place, the manner in which people become empathic and civilized remains the same. We with great powers have great responsibility - lets not let it go to waste becasue of apathy (doing nothing) or outrage (I'll teach you not to do that again punishment) -- niether of which does a lick to foster caring people.
kids having kids having kids... Many of whom grow up without any values is certainly a huge problem. But the societal issues that have created that mess have been going on for about 50 years now. Fixing it isn't going to be politically simple, which means it's going to take a long time to accomplish. We still have several generations of screwed up individuals to contend with, and I'd argue that the ones who are over 18, and have already been in/out of jail numerous times are essentially gone. Empathy isn't going to work with those sociopaths. But the kids that are still young enough - say under 14 - we can work with. Certainly the Schools have a role in developing young minds and ingraining proper societal norms, but they can only do so much and they shouldn't be expected to do it all. So again, we're back to the issue of parental responsibility or the lack thereof.
I am all for consequences and more than talking; however I maintain that there are many instances in which it is perfectly acceptable to pity rather than scorn the perpetrator and address the problem with measured discipline rather than self-serving punishment or nothing at all.
This might not be the right way to deal with everyone - psychological issues, etc. But it's severely lacking in today's society. I'm not talking about smacking someone hard enough to draw blood or anything, but what great grandma did stung, hurt for a good 15 minutes. You cried. And you didn't want it to happen again. That was all you needed to know as a young kid who wasn't able to process all of the ramifications of what you might have been plotting... Over time, you realized "Great Grandma was right, and you were the better for it.".