Santo Finally Makes It Into Hall of Fame

dan arenov July 23, 2012 at 02:15 pm

I've been a Cubs fan for over 40 years, but have an issue with the veteran's committee.
1. you don't elevate a player to HOF status because "he was a good guy". 2. you don't elevate a player to HOF status because he dealt with an illness. 3. you don't elevate a player to HOF status because he ended up being very popular, locally, because he went into broadcasting. 4. and most of all, you don't elevate a player to HOF status because "he was the best third baseman in his generation". That right there is a wrongheaded reason for putting someone in the hall. The HOF has been diluted over the years; much of it because guys were put in there based on some of these shaky, subjective, reasons.

John Russillo July 23, 2012 at 04:37 pm

He was a terrible color commentator, for those of us who were really interested in good commentary. If you listened to hear him cheer or tell dumb stories or ask Pat who was at bat, then he was great. Let's not sugar coat it, he was horrible. But as Dan says all that matters is his playing career. I tend to think we should let the writers elect the HOF and keep the former players out of it. I think the veterans committee has been a failure so far. Most HOFers don't want to elect anyone.

Brian July 23, 2012 at 04:44 pm

@ John: Ok, so you didn't like him. That doesn't make him a bad color guy. He's there to keep us entertained....color man. Pat did/does a tremendous job and they had a great rapport together. Some people don't like what he did, but for a great many fans he made listening to an already slow moving sport much more enjoyable.
That being said, I agree with you completely on the writers. The VC is awful.

John Russillo July 23, 2012 at 04:49 pm

I didn't like or dislike him. He provided no baseball insight whatsoever. Listen to Steve Stone sometime and see how much you learn about the game. But again, everyone wants something different from their broadcast, I get that.

John Russillo July 23, 2012 at 04:51 pm

And before you ask, no, I'm not a Sox fan.

Johny July 23, 2012 at 05:01 pm

Santo was a very good player. The HOF is not part of MLB. On various lists of the best 3rd baseman of all time or his era, Santo can be found sometimes highly ranked and on others not even on the list. It is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Numbers and I guess Santo didn't impress enough to get in, until now. I was an avid fan and a foolish young man (or old kid). I would often choose the game on the radio in my car in the parking lot to my girlfriend in a bikini at the pool. Funny thing, although I know Santo was good during those years, I don't remember ever feeling good when he was coming to bat in a pressure situation. I always thought he could be in the Hall or not, but the push by his family and WGN radio the past several years was really bad.

Sully July 23, 2012 at 05:11 pm

John, I usually mute any game I'm watching (including NFL). None of the talking heads have much of anything to add to the game.

Johny July 23, 2012 at 05:24 pm

It is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Numbers. The reason Robinson was there and Santo not is
obvious.

Johny July 23, 2012 at 05:37 pm

Listening to those radio broadcasts in middle and late 60s as a teenager, and then into the 70s, I think I became kind of spoiled. I loved the "baseball" Vince and Lou broadcasted along with the real commentary and insight they delivered. In more recent years, instead of turning down the sound on the TV and turning on the radio, I wanted a radio that would receive TV broadcasts. I certainly respect Ron Santo for what he went through and his hard fought battle and work for others with JDRF.

John Russillo July 23, 2012 at 05:40 pm

I think Brenly is outstanding.

Sully July 23, 2012 at 06:14 pm

But how much can one say during nine long innings game after game after game?
Really though, it's just personal preference.

Nightcrawler July 23, 2012 at 06:31 pm

Agree on Brenly. Also Steve Stone, IMO the best of the best. And for those who are old enough to remember, Lou Boudreau was tremendous.
As bad as Santo was, he didn't hold a candle to Joe Carter, the all-time champion of bad color commentators.

Brian July 23, 2012 at 06:37 pm

I agree, Stone is an outstanding analyst. So is Brenly. But having listened to all three a bit, I don't knock Ron down for how he was. I do think he provided baseball thoughts, especially when asked questions about situational hitting and fielding. He did need to be bated into it a lot, but that's why he and Pat worked so well together. Pat knew when to keep him on track and when to let him wax poetic on anything from his legs (or lack-there-of) to his hair piece.
I feel there is a reason besides just the party atmosphere of wrigley, as to why they draw more high school and college age fans to the cubs. I think they created a fun atmosphere that baseball doesn't seem to have enough of. It is all opinion, and I was going to say I don't want to be argumentative...except that's exactly what I'm doing I suppose. This is definitely an issue i can say to each his own. (And judging by ticket sales, is anyone a sox fan?)

Sully July 23, 2012 at 06:38 pm

Is Stone with the Sox now? I will not watch the south siders! But Stone is one of the few good ones. I'm going to have to think about Joe Carter being the worst. He certainly in the top ten.
Crawler, what do you think about the Penn St. Penalties?

Sully July 23, 2012 at 06:45 pm

Maybe I should actually listen to a game. Since I haven't, I don't know much about Brenly.

McCloud July 23, 2012 at 06:52 pm

Brenly is great, Stone is a pompous over hyped analyst who invented a sense of humor by speaking like a character from the tv show Mash.

Nightcrawler July 23, 2012 at 07:51 pm

@Sully re Penn State: My reaction is the penalties are pretty weak. $60 million is probably less than the football program's take for a year. Personally, I'd like to see the university close down the football program completely, fire everybody, and – if they choose to – start over. Of course, we won't see that happen.

Sully July 23, 2012 at 08:06 pm

The report is that $60 million is about what the team brings in in a year. I think I'd prefer the death penalty too. Get rid of the football culture for at least a year. Now the football team could be looked at as sort of martyrs. I still wish Paterno were alive to face these consequences, but we know that's not possible. His wife playing apologist is pretty annoying. Of course, this could lead to questions about programs where players have been accused of sexual assault (such as Notre Dame), but have had the incident swept under the rug. Is that really much different when you think about it?

McCloud July 23, 2012 at 08:06 pm

Hey Crawl, do these pants make me look fat? What do you think?

Nightcrawler July 23, 2012 at 08:18 pm

Only when you bend over.

Charley Krebs July 24, 2012 at 01:29 am

I am a Sox fan and suffered color commentators like Early Wynn, Lou Brock, Chris Singleton, and a few others. Some notable Sox co-hosts were Lorn Brown of the west suburbs, Red Rush, Bob Waller, and Mary Shane. Of course, we also had the legendary Harry & Jimmy, so you can't have everything. But my being a Sox fan might be why I enjoyed the Cubs broadcast as entertainment over it being any good document of the play on the field. I also liked Hughes when he did Brewers games! Do any of your old-timers remember how mis-cast poor Lou Boudreau was when WGN TV had him host the in-studio between-period breaks on Blackhawks games???

Jerry Pech July 24, 2012 at 12:56 pm

Sully and Nightcrawler...How many people at the University had knowledge of Sandusky's crimes? Reportedly there were 10, of which 3 were associated with the football program (Paterno, McQueary and Curley).
So because of the actions of these few people, you want punish hundreds of people whose jobs rely on the football program but had no knowledge, dozens of players who had no knowledge and millions of fans who had no knowledge. It's just me, but I'd rather hold the individuals responsible for their actions and not punish others who had no involvement and no knowledge.

McCloud July 24, 2012 at 01:03 pm

I liked seeing the good kid in a gold sportscoat with the channel 9 patch. It was also pure entertainment hearing him pronounce the French players names, maybe funnier than how he articulated Ivan Dejesus's name.

Nightcrawler July 24, 2012 at 01:51 pm

@ Jerry: Obviously, your argument is the one that won out. My problem with it is that it confirms that what really matters is the money, and the continuing viability of the enterprise that makes it. If I'm reading your post right, you see a few bad apples whose removal you're confident will correct the problem. Hope you're right.

Nightcrawler July 24, 2012 at 02:01 pm

Thanks for the memories of Sox broadcasting misery. If you think Early Wynn was bad - and he was - how about Bob Elson and Jack Drees? Anyone with insomnia would find a quick remedy with either one.
I only vaguely remember Boudreau doing the Hawks' intermissions, but Lloyd Pettit's play-by-play remains the standard by which all hockey announcers are measured.

McCloud July 24, 2012 at 02:15 pm

When the Sox were on the fuzzy channel, there was something about Harry in those days that I just had to watch. Greasy face from eating Chicken Unlimited, or drinking the Phalstaff. Much like Wrigley Field, Harry's best days were followed by years with the Cubs filled with adoration where the essence of those old days evaporated.

Nightcrawler July 24, 2012 at 02:36 pm

Totally agree. Harry was at his peak with the Sox, and Piersall was, as they say, certifiable. Remember when the ballpark caught on fire, and Harry suggested they put it out with Falstaff? "What a waste of liquid gold!"

McCloud July 24, 2012 at 05:56 pm

I remember Harry and Jimmy in Kansas City complaining how hot it was, and they both removed their shirts and broadcast the game shirtless. Then they were laughing at MLB the next day for passing a rule that shirts were now mandatory for broadcasters.

Nightcrawler July 24, 2012 at 06:22 pm

Damn, those were the days. I used the two of them in a series of radio commercials for Wieboldt's. The spots were terrible, but recording them was tremendous. Back then, Harry had absolutely no use for the Cubs - he was still a Cardinal guy through and through. And boy, did they ever hate LaRussa.

Jerry Pech July 24, 2012 at 08:09 pm

I may be niave but I believe given what has happened, should any questionable act occur in forseeable future, those in positions of authority will act quickly and properly so as not to incur the same fate.
You state "My problem with it is that it confirms that what really matters is the money"...I completely disagree, to me its about punishing the wrong doers. How is Jerry Sandusky punished by taking away the livelihood of hundreds of innocent people? Same could be said for the 10 people at PSU who had knowledge...crucify them, not the institution. The institution is going to suffer plenty from the misdeeds of a few, no need to pile on....just one man's opinion.